Discussion:
It happened seventy years ago today
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Icono Clast
2005-08-18 23:07:25 UTC
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[This was sent 8/17/2005 16:34 and apparently disappeared.]

[PLEASE NOTE cross-posts. Please delete irrelevant Groups should you
choose to reply.]

It happened seventy years ago today,
the Seventeenth of August, 1935:

When Benny Goodman saw the mob trying to get into Oakland's
McFadden's Ballroom (I wish I could find the newspaper picture), he
asked something like "What's happening?" Someone answered "They've
come to see you!"

This followed a disastrous evening at Elitch's Gardens in Denver when
the audience, some demanding their money back, stood in motionless
silence when the band played the music for which we know it.
Humiliated, he managed to please that audience with Polkas and Waltzes.

But the Oakland audience was hep to what he really wanted to do. He
opened with Fletcher Henderson's chart of "One O'Clock Jump" and the
Swing Era was born.

His gig at the Palomar Ballroom, four days later in Los Angeles, was
equally successful. Not knowing what had happened in Oakland, the
Angelinos claim that they were at the birth of the Swing Era.

Even Goodman's official WEB site has succumbed to the Angelinos' con:
"1935 [Benny] Scores first big success when band opens at Palomar
Ballroom in Los Angeles on August 21, marking the beginning of the
swing era." According to Gene Krupa, the first couple of sets were
rather subdued but when the band started to swing "we were in!"

Most people in this forum aren't aware that I'm a Big Band freak who
attends at least one Big Band performance every week, often more. For
me, the Big Band, if not the Swing, Era is alive and well.
___________________________________________________________________
A San Franciscan who never says "No!" to an invitation to dance!
< http://geocities.com/dancefest/ >-< http://geocities.com/iconoc/ >
ICQ: < http://wwp.mirabilis.com/19098103 > ---> IClast at SFbay Net


* "Sent on a cross-country tour by his agent, Goodman encountered
negative reaction all along the way, until he reached Oakland. For
the first time the band scored a resounding success, followed by
another at the Palomar Ballroom in Los Angeles. Radio broadcasts from
the Palomar helped spread the word from coast-to-coast, and Goodman's
orchestra was suddenly on top of the world." -- Solid! The
encyclopedia of big band, lounge, classic jazz and space-age sounds
http://www.parabrisas.com/d_goodmanb.php


". . . a nation-wide tour began in May and flopped at first: Stacy
said that in Denver everybody was across town listening to Kay Kyser.
But in Oakland in August there was a crowd waiting and Goodman
thought they must have arrived in the wrong place. There and at the
Palomar Ballroom they finally found a college-age audience who'd
tuned in to Let's Dance in the evening, looking for dance music on
the radio: the big-band jazz style which had already been on the boil
for years was a hit, the Swing Era began . . ." -- Musicweb:
http://www.musicweb-international.com/encyclopaedia/g/G66.HTM


". . . a cross-country tour with the orchestra. After some minor
successes and major disasters, the group was well-received in Oakland
and then on August 21, 1935 they nearly caused a riot at the Palomar
Ballroom in Los Angeles as teenagers went crazy over the band -- Duke
University
http://www-music.duke.edu/jazz_archive/artists/goodman.benny/05/biography.html


"The tour culminated with Goodman's performance at the Palomar in
L.A. Although Oakland turnouts were said to have been good and crowds
enthusiastic, the band was not expecting what they were met with in
Southern California. What seemed to be the end of the road for the
Benny Goodman big band suddenly became the beginning of a new era in
American music history when the kids that night, in the summer of
1935, heard the band launch into a hot jazz number and began crowding
around the bandstand cheering and encouraging the group." -- Swing
Music Net http://www.swingmusic.net/getset.html
Doubting Timus
2005-09-12 02:03:50 UTC
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There was a concert...

In 1938, Carnegie Hall, when Jazz drumming was supposedly born, by which it
is meant, a white guy did it. Sing Sing Sing.

Are there eyewitness reports, accounts, pictures of the evening? It seems
to mark an epoch when music was both serious and exciting.
--
Doubting Timus
ubi dubium ibi libertas
Has the Eagle Flown?
http://www.baymoon.com/~timus/dumpw.htm
Al Stevens
2005-09-12 04:00:27 UTC
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It was recorded. The records were released in the 1950s, IIRC.
Doubting Timus
2005-09-12 22:26:41 UTC
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Post by Al Stevens
It was recorded. The records were released in the 1950s, IIRC.
Yes, I have the series. The question pertained to pictures, written or
taped eye-witness accounts from musicians or audience.

I'm curious about how an historic event played out in real time.
--
Doubting Timus
ubi dubium ibi libertas
***@nerdnosh.com
Morton Linder
2005-09-17 23:44:57 UTC
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Post by Al Stevens
It was recorded. The records were released in the 1950s, IIRC.
The 1938 Carnegie Hall Concert was re-released on a Sony CD set just a
few years ago.

Morton
n***@grandecom.net
2005-09-12 05:44:22 UTC
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Max Roach called Gene Krupa an innovator.

I've never heard anyone say Krupa invented jazz drumming. That's absurd. But
that Krupa had a huge impact on jazz drumming is pretty obvious. What I have
heard, and it seems reasonable, is that after him, bandleaders would *give
the drummer some* a lot more often, and that listeners expected to hear drum
solos as well.

Morris Nelms
Post by Doubting Timus
There was a concert...
In 1938, Carnegie Hall, when Jazz drumming was supposedly born, by which
it is meant, a white guy did it. Sing Sing Sing.
Are there eyewitness reports, accounts, pictures of the evening? It seems
to mark an epoch when music was both serious and exciting.
--
Doubting Timus
ubi dubium ibi libertas
Has the Eagle Flown?
http://www.baymoon.com/~timus/dumpw.htm
Gary Hogan
2005-09-12 13:24:47 UTC
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Is 1938 from 2005... seventy?
Doubting Timus
2005-09-12 22:24:53 UTC
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Post by n***@grandecom.net
Max Roach called Gene Krupa an innovator.
He had a most unique sound, reportedly from driving ice picks into his
drumheads. He also played music, with solos running riffs like songs rather
than barrages, like Buddy Rich.

I read somewhere (Whitney Bailliett most likely, in New Yorker) in an
article about Chick Webb, (who was one great showman, by all accounts - he'd
twirl that drumstick through his fingers and watch it as if in awe of the
propeller in his hand) that Krupa and Rich were "not showmen but showoffs."

Chick Webb did a bit where he dropped his stick. He'd very gingerly,
apologetically leave his seat to retrieve it. And then lose it again. By
the third time, the band was convulsed, the joint was rolling in the aisles.

In The Gene Krupa Story, the movie, Sal Mineo did this bit, but he used it
as a flaw, as if merely holding onto his sticks was what it took to recover
from his marijuana habit, I guess. There doesn't seem to be any way to show
a mainstream audience progression in Jazz quality.

"For those who have never heard Chick, I feel no small amount of
compassion..." - Gene Krupa
http://www.drummerman.net/influence.html
Post by n***@grandecom.net
I've never heard anyone say Krupa invented jazz drumming. That's absurd.
Understand me, now. Nobody said Charlie Parker invented alto sax, or if
they did, they never meant it literally.

It was said the explosion at Carnegie Hall that evening produced the drum
solo showcase in Swing and later forms of Jazz. Call it a cultural rather
than musical artifact.
--
Doubting Timus
ubi dubium ibi libertas
***@nerdnosh.com
s***@gmail.com
2016-09-26 05:45:46 UTC
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Post by Doubting Timus
There was a concert...
In 1938, Carnegie Hall, when Jazz drumming was supposedly born, by which it
is meant, a white guy did it. Sing Sing Sing.
Are there eyewitness reports, accounts, pictures of the evening? It seems
to mark an epoch when music was both serious and exciting.
--
Doubting Timus
ubi dubium ibi libertas
Has the Eagle Flown?
http://www.baymoon.com/~timus/dumpw.htm
Wasn't that Swing, swing, swing?

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